Chilling With Perry Yung…
In the interest of full disclosure, I am a huge fan of Warrior (now on Netflix). That being said, my guest today is so multidimensional that it would be foolish to try and pigeon hole him into any one role. You can catch him currently on 3 Body Problem (also on Netflix), Steven Soderbergh’s The Knick, and a host of other projects. I’m speaking of actor, musician, activist, master shakuhachi player and maker Perry Yung. [Spoiler alert for Season 3 of Warrior!]
Hanz Araki: Like I said, I’m a fan of yours, and there’s plenty of information on you on IMDB, but if you could, share your shakuhachi origin story… how did it come into your life?
Perry Yung: I first discovered the shakuhachi flute in 1993 while performing in New York City as an actor in Ellen Stewart’s experimental theater production Oedipus the King. Night after night, the subtle sound of the flute from the pit musician Yukio Tsuji became all encompassing. One night I went to find Yukio after a performance and asked "What is the instrument you are playing in that part of the show?” He looked at me with a smile that said, "oh, you're bitten" and held up a shakuhachi. You mean this—the shakuhachi. I asked if I could buy one somewhere. He laughed. This was pre-internet. He said the only way I could get a good shakuhachi was if I went to Japan to the house of a maker with someone I trusted and had them play all the flutes to find the one that fits me. I was a young starving artist then and that was just out of my realm of possibilities.
Well, a few months went by and Oedipus the King went on tour in The Balkans. One day, in the back of the bust somewhere between Greece and Macedonia I saw Yukio shaving the utaguchi of a flute. I said, “You make these?!” He said, "well, I've been making this one for years, one day, it'll sing.” When the tour ended. I went to the flower market in New York City and purchased a few bamboo poles and went to Yukio's music studio where he let me copy his flutes. He told me these are jinashi flutes—natural flutes, unlike the contemporary jiari with ji plaster used to shape and tune the bore. So, that's how I started making the shakuhachi, under the tutelage of that pit musician in Oedipus. I learned how to make and play simultaneously on my own instruments. About 6 years later, I bumped into filmmaker Veronica Soul on the corner of Broadway and Houston. I had been in her film Ghost Story. She asked what I was up to and I said believe it or not, I'm really into making Japanese bamboo flutes. Her eye widened as she said, "I know the perfect grant for you." Veronica had received a Japan United States Friendship Commission Artist grant years earlier to study Japanese cinema in Japan. Through her guidance, I applied for the grant and a year later with the help of Ralph Samuelson, I found myself in Japan sitting crossed-legged in front of Kinya Sogawa, who was a deshi (live-in apprentice) of Chikusen Tamai. It was a life changing experience that affects everything I do—music, dance, theater, acting...it has become an integral part of my life as I continue crafting and performing for theater, television and film and in meditation communities. The flute has helped to raise money for UNICEF, Food Banks, Black Lives Matter, Anti-Asian violence organizations and recently for Doctors without Borders and The Palestine Children's Relief Fund.
HA: I’m fascinated by multi-faceted artists and the intersection of different disciplines. I seem to remember you mentioning, maybe on social media, that your shakuhachi practice influences your craft as an actor. Can you speak a little on that subject? Is it incidental, or do you look to shakuhachi with intention; that is, as an active part of your work as an actor?
PY: When I first played the flute, it was for purely music and aesthetic reasons—to engage in something outside the Western or Eurocentric canon. But as the flute became a daily practice, I noticed that I became a chiller person. Not that I wasn't chill before, I just became chiller! I realized that was probably due to the breathing—quick inhalations and long exhalations. I equated it with my yoga practice of prana breathing. The effects we're more noticeable because I played the flute all day as opposed to a yoga class a few days a week. The “chill” I'm talking about is stillness. As an actor, my mind has to be completely focused on the moment. The long tones I play everyday helps me focus on the moment. It allows me to be right where I have to be in every moment and know that I'm there or not. It has taught me to hold every moment as an actor/performer. Especially between the notes when you're not playing. As an actor, you can only speak in response to what you’ve heard. That awareness of the silence made me a better actor. When I noticed this connection, I started to play before auditions. I felt right away that my breathing was shallow before an audition. My chest was tight. I would then blow a tone for a few minutes to release the tension. After a while, I noticed that I could feel the release immediately—the tension floating away in the long tone. It was a gift to know that I can instantly calm myself down. I have a shakuhachi with me in my trailer every time I film.
HA: In addition to being a fantastic shakuhachi player, you’re also a master shakuhachi maker. You’ve been kind enough to work on a number of shakuhachi for me, including my own personal instrument that was made by Kodō II—incidentally, I learned the term jimori from you. How has your work restoring older and varied instruments informed your shakuhachi making? Do you prefer to work on or with any of these techniques (jiari/jinashi, etc) in particular?
Upper West Side, Manhattan, 2022
PY: Firstly, thanks so much for your kind accolade. I am only chasing the sound of my teachers and those makers who have left their indelible spirit in their flutes. Working on old shakuhachi is an honor beyond words. They are ancestors who are available to talk anytime you're ready to listen. I imagine them like a grandparent society may have forgotten; but if we sit with them, their sage spirit opens new insight to life in the present moment, and can guide us to what is ultimately important.
In terms of crafting, I lean toward jinashi with a little addition of subtraction in the bore—jimori. Before I learned of the term I called this method chikusing—Chinese for hollow bamboo. This approach utilizes the plant's spirit. As a contemporary musician, I float in between music systems that would be most useful for what I need to achieve at the moment. Sometimes in a contemporary setting, a natural wind sound in the bamboo with an indefinable western pitch is the exact thing that is just called for. My friend Pedro Eustache who records for Hans Zimmer on all his films is a great example of stretching the creative spectrum. He plays master-made wind instruments of all cultures, but personally customizes them to be slightly off Western tuning in order to create the other worldly tone of Hans’ film scores. In Dune 2, for example, Pedro drilled extra holes into a ney flute bringing it way out of its standard tuning and scale to bring us into a new landscape.
In terms of repair, I do what the owner needs. Very good players know exactly what their instruments need to do for them, so we talk about specific techniques and fingering and how the note should be pitched and the feeling it evokes when played. Many lesser experienced players will usually say something like I think it's out of tune or I'm having trouble with tsu-meri. That's when I have to have it in my hands to evaluate. More often than not, there's nothing wrong with the flute. Again, it depends upon the player's skill level, and their idea of music and the system they need to play in. If blowing with a certain level of intensity, and the note is not pitched well, we can talk about pitch adjustments. Otherwise, most new players are not playing strong enough which results in a flat Western pitch. It gets tricky when talking about tone color and feeling. It could be that the maker was purposeful in its period, or out-of-western tuning. In fact, that is more often the case.
Lastly, as part of my studies with Sogawa-san I re-tuned a very damaged old, fat Tozan from the 1940's. It was an exact 1.8 length with very deep chimneys for the holes and pitched entirely ½ step flat at C#. It was a heavy beast. In making it play again and at D, we did a lot of work. If we put an hourly wage on it, it would have amounted to more than a new flute from a reputable maker. But in that process, I got to connect to the original maker, previous owner and an old plant. As cheesy as it sounds, the flute was speaking to me, thanking me for helping it have a second life. I started collecting damaged flutes for this very purpose. This was around the same time my partner was pregnant with our first born in Japan. We had discussed adoption and it occurred to me that making old flutes available was like helping orphaned children find a new home. I thought that would be a valuable thing for society. There are so many of them, all different shapes and sizes ready for the right caretaker.
HA: While jimori, jiari, and jinashi all have their adherents, I believe it’s all so subjective. As a player, are there characteristics of each that you enjoy and for different situations—e.g. jinashi for improvisation and composition vs. jiari for traditional music—or do you have a clear, singular preference?
PY: Yes, I agree that sound is highly subjective. The sound of the bamboo is what I try to share. I think it is the thing that moves people out of the norm. I recently had the most unique and singular experience of playing a shakuhachi offering for my own eulogy. Well, I mean for the character Father Jun who I play in the Warrior television series. He dies in the last season and there is a scene I was asked to play for the score of his eulogy. I had to improvise around the script delivered by the incredible actor Hoon Lee. I made a special hybrid bass flute in a period tuning I call Father Jun tuning for the recording. It's with the old sharp chi except even sharper to the full minor 3rd from re. It feels like a deep blues scale one can improvise around freely without having to play melodically. The recording engineer, producer and music supervisor in the session loved it. A week later, they got the final music score for the scene and the engineer called the producer to say the post production editor took away all the bamboo quality of the flute for some reason. The producer called the composer and told him they like the bamboo sound and to compose around it to highlight its organic quality. It's now on the Season 3 Warrior soundtrack. To answer your question, I like jinashi playing in a non-concert music setting the best. That may be due to how I was exposed to the flute—in a theater performance unsure of what I was hearing, but yet deeply moved.
HA: I’ve talked at some length about the difficulties of being half-, and how it creates a dynamic where I’m never “enough”—Japanese or White. I would hope you haven’t faced any challenges due to your Chinese heritage, but sadly it wouldn’t necessarily surprise me if you had. What has your experience been as a non-Japanese (Asian American) been in the shakuhachi world?
PY: I get confusion mostly (ha ha!) I found the Japanese makers, like Sogawa-san, very receptive to me. More than if I was Japanese, I think. I had doors opened that would've been more difficult for young aspiring Japanese makers due to the fact that I was a gaijin—more American than Chinese. In the end, the artists I met were much more welcoming than I had expected. During the Japan-United States Friendship Commission Grant, I also studied Butoh dance with father and son legends Kazuo and Yoshito Ohno. I ended my grant with a performance in their Yokohama studio with Sogawa-san and his wife Laurie playing shakuhachi. It was an amazing once-in-a-lifetime experience.
HA: I keep trying to word this as a question but it’s not working so please allow me to just say how much I appreciate your willingness to use your platform for advocacy and giving a voice to social justice issues. It’s inspiring and I want to acknowledge that.
PY: Thanks so much. If we can not use our voice to make the world a better place for all, what use is it? The Japanese aesthetic of wabi sabi—revealing the beauty of nature with just a touch of the human hand—has become an integral part of my life in everything I do. The flute has given me so much that I felt the need give back, so I found a way to collaborate with the spirit of the monks from past to help the neediest in society today. Basically, I donate a percentage to nonprofit organizations working towards a kinder world. To name a few: UNICEF, food banks, Black Lives Matter, Indigeonous Womens' groups, Anti-Asian violence organizations, and recently for Doctors without Borders and The Palestine Children's Relief Fund.
HA: Is it okay to ask about a possible shakuhachi recording on the horizon..?
PY: Of course! I am in the process of recording now. I keep vacillating on what it is I am offering. The essence of the bamboo can not be captured on a digital recording. Let's just say I am trying to figure it out in the studio as we speak.
HA: What are your hopes for the future of shakuhachi?
PY: That everyone in the world can play a single tone and find new inspiration. I'm teaching a shakuhachi making workshop with the Japan Society in New York City, May 2025. Open to anyone who wants to discover a slice of peace!
HA: Thank you, Perry!
More anon,
Hanz